#177 Sanchali Pal, Founder of Joro App

Sanchali founded Joro to empower people to take climate action that matters, starting with how they spend money. Prior to Joro, Sanchali worked on sustainable development in East Africa and South Asia at Dalberg, where she saw firsthand the devastating effects of the climate crisis for vulnerable populations, and at Tesla. Sanchali holds a BA from Princeton and an MBA from Harvard Business School.

Bigger Than Us #177

This transcript has been lightly edited.

Host Raj Daniels 00:23

So Sanchali, I’d like to start by rewinding the clock to 2015. What led you to Ethiopia, and what did you learn while you were there?

Sanchali Pal 01:28

Well, after I graduated from college — I got a degree in economics. And I was really interested in the intersection of international development and the development of emerging markets: how countries around the world developing was going to create prosperity and opportunities for new populations. So I worked for a firm called Dalberg, which is a strategy consulting firm focused on international development. And I was working with groups all over the world, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa and in South Asia. Our clients were folks like the Gates Foundation, or the government of Ethiopia, also Google, so a bunch of different types of clients who are all solving social impact problems. And my first ever project, I was on a project in Ethiopia, working for the prime minister’s office, trying to help them create an economic development plan to pull millions of people out of poverty and make Ethiopia a middle income country. 

And after working on that, from my office in New York for several years, I realized I wanted to live and work closer to the action. And so when the company was decided to start an office in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, I took the opportunity to move there and help start the office.

Host Raj Daniels 02:40

How long were you there?

Sanchali Pal 02:41

I was there for a year from 2015 to 2016.

Host Raj Daniels 02:44

And what did you learn being closer to the action?

Sanchali Pal 02:47

I got to see a lot of the impacts of our work firsthand in a way I didn’t when I was flying in and out to do this work. When I was there, I was working on an agricultural project, I was helping the government attract private sector investment into new agrobusinesses. 

I spent a lot of time traveling around the country, working with smallholder farmers and people who are running their own agrobusinesses. And speaking to people, day after day, I really was able to understand the impacts of the climate crisis firsthand. We were facing the biggest drought in decades in Ethiopia that at that time, and hearing the stories of farmers who had tilled the same land for generations — and we’re seeing dramatic shifts in climate patterns that were devastating their entire crops — made me realize the urgency of the climate crisis, that it’s here now. 

And it’s affecting every sector of the economy. It’s not just agriculture; its infrastructure and economic development. All types of industry and manufacturing are being affected, that the climate is not just a sort of standalone issue. It’s part of the fundamental development of every sector of the economy.

Host Raj Daniels 03:48

And we’re six years past when you were there, have you kept in touch with the program and do you know if things have changed?

Sanchali Pal 03:56

Things have changed in Ethiopia, especially the political situation has changed dramatically. And so that’s quite unfortunate because I think a lot of the exciting economic development work we were doing at the time, a lot of foreign investment coming in, is no longer coming in right now as Ethiopia is sort of in the midst of a civil war and ethnic crisis. I’ve been sort of sad to see the way that that’s developing, but also, in parallel, the climate crisis is still very much there, and still very much a part of developing political crises both in East Africa and in other parts of the world.

Host Raj Daniels 04:33

You know, I agree. So I have a lot of family in Kenya. And we stay in touch quite often. And the countries that surround Kenya have been unstable for so long with the Sudan crisis, Somalia, Ethiopia, and I have a hard time just — we have hope for the region, but when it kind of settled down and when things are going to improve, it’s going to be — we’re optimistic, but not sure what that timeline looks like.

Sanchali Pal 04:56

Yeah. And it’s so challenging when even good progress is made, and then it’s thwarted by a drought or a water crisis or a challenging set of sort of access to resources. It makes all conflicts more difficult to resolve.

Host Raj Daniels 05:12

Conflicts, absolutely. And other political issues, too. I don’t know if you heard the news last week about the airport in Uganda in Entebbe.

Sanchali Pal 05:20

Oh, I didn’t, no.

Host Raj Daniels 05:21

So apparently, the Ugandan government took out a loan from China for improvements on the airport. I’ve tried to find as much detail as I can regarding this, just because I’m curious. And the expansion program, the loan didn’t go as planned. And so now there’s conversation about China actually taking over possession of the airport, because there was a default on the loan.

Sanchali Pal 05:44

Wow.

Host Raj Daniels 05:45

I look at Africa as a continent, and then all the countries, and I just see the continent over and over again, being used as almost like a political pawn.

Sanchali Pal 05:54

I think what’s really interesting is also during my time in Ethiopia, I really felt like, wow, I have this unique view into the climate crisis because I’m living here during this time. And the rest of you, especially the U.S., my home, is not aware of how bad the climate crisis is because it hasn’t reached the stage yet. But now, I don’t know if that’s the case anymore. I feel that the climate crisis has progressed at a rate that I really didn’t expect, even within the Western world. I mean, even in Berlin and in France, we were seeing floods last year, and I think no place is going to be truly spared from from the climate crisis, even if the poorest and more vulnerable populations are more affected.

Host Raj Daniels 06:38

I agree. You mentioned the floods in Europe last year, even this year, and then bringing it back close to home, the fires that you’ve experienced in California.

Sanchali Pal 06:46

Absolutely. I mean, even here in California, I think people are waking up to the realities of the climate crisis in a way that we’ve never had to before because we’re seeing fires in our own backyards.

Host Raj Daniels 06:56

Well, let’s pour some hope on this fire. Fast forward to Joro. You mentioned climate crisis, let’s talk about Joro, your current organization and your role at the organization.

Sanchali Pal 07:07

Joro empowers people to take action on climate change, starting with how they spend money. Something that I was really interested to discover in my own climate journey was just how much our consumption or our spending does have an impact on global emissions. Household consumers are directly influencing 65% of global emissions through the way that we demand goods and services. And the things that we map, we demand map to the sectors of the economy; for instance, industry goods and services, food and agriculture, travel and transportation, and home energy use and the electricity sector. So I was really curious to find out that our money really does have an impact on on climate change. And the way that we choose to spend our money and invest our money can help us have real meaningful impact on addressing the climate crisis. So that’s what Joro does. 

We now have a mobile app in the App Store and in the Play Store, which allows anyone to, for free, track the emissions from their spendings. You can connect your credit or debit cards, and automatically see the emissions behind everything you buy. And then you can take action on those emissions, either through changing your behavior, through purchasing differently — we have lots of tips and guides and challenges in the app to find your biggest opportunities for lowering emissions through daily changes. Or you can also choose to offset your emissions, the emissions that you can’t avoid, by investing in carbon removal technologies around the world that we vet and curate, so that people like us can access the same quality of carbon offsets as companies on the cutting edge of net zero commitments.

Host Raj Daniels 08:40

How do you collect the data behind purchases?

Sanchali Pal 08:44

So right now we use an API called Plaid, which is the same API that Venmo uses. And most of the major apps that are fintech apps use Plaid’s API, which is a secure banking API. It allows us to access transaction data without having to store or access any sensitive information like login information or card information. So we just get information on the purchases and the purchase amounts. And then we translate that transaction data into carbon footprint estimations, using datasets that we’ve assembled in partnership with academics, especially at Yale University. So we’ve actually taken national level datasets and local datasets that are available on the carbon intensity of various sectors in the economy. And we’ve turned those into emissions factors that can be applied to something like a grocery purchase or a pair of jeans.

Host Raj Daniels 09:33

Can you give an example? Let’s use jeans, for example. Can you give an example of the data behind that and how you can find the relationship between the jeans and sustainability or carbon footprint?

Sanchali Pal 09:43

Yes, so our emissions estimates are based on the type of purchases you make. So say you spend $100 at Levi’s, we have calculated a carbon emissions factor for clothing and denim and that is based on national level data, and in some cases, for instance, in other sectors, it might — jeans are the same whether you buy them in Massachusetts or in Texas, but something like gasoline is different. 

So depending on the sector, we might make that more localized. And then we multiply that emissions factor by the dollar amount. And something we’re working on now is actually trying to get to the vendor level. So we could see you purchase something from Levi’s versus something from Everlane, for instance, maybe we’d be able to give you a lower carbon score for Everlane if they have a higher sustainability rating. So that’s sort of an example of how our emissions are calculated.

Host Raj Daniels 10:32

Have you received any vendor sentiment about being included on your app?

Sanchali Pal 10:37

We haven’t yet because we’re still in the research phase. But I do think it’s going to be one of the more controversial things that we do, especially because companies have their own ideas of what sustainability is. And what we’re trying to do is be as objective as possible about the emissions factors of different companies.

Host Raj Daniels 10:54

I was having a conversation recently with a gentleman up in Massachusetts, I believe, and we were talking about things like extended producer responsibility. And just curious, when you do start having these conversations with manufacturers, how far down the supply chain does the conversation go?

Sanchali Pal 11:10

That’s something we’re looking at. We’re looking at scope one, scope two, and scope three emissions, which includes sort of owned, purchased and influenced emissions of the company. And I think part of the challenge is that different companies draw the boundaries in different places. So we’re trying to do a bit of standardization on drawing the boundaries, wherever we feel we can be most confident that we have comparable data between companies. Right now in the app, we estimate emissions based on until the point of purchase. So until the garment, for instance, gets to the customers hands. And so we’re going to try to continue to do that if we have the data to support it.

Host Raj Daniels 11:46

And do you have any plans in the future to make suggestions for end of life for merchandise?

Sanchali Pal 11:53

Right now, we account for usage of a garment through, for instance, someone’s utility bill, or the way that they’re using energy at home. And then we do ask questions about if someone recycles or composts, but we don’t account for landfill differences between one city and another. That’s something that perhaps, perhaps we could do down the line.

Host Raj Daniels 12:17

Oh, just think it’d be interesting to know that, if I bought a TV and has a estimated life of seven to 10 years, what the potential options are going forward once I’m done with the television.

Sanchali Pal 12:28

I think that would be a really interesting place to go. And where we’d like to be able to go is just more more options for action. And that’s what we’re working on now. So as I mentioned, we’ve introduced some of these guides and challenges and now offsets that allow people to act on the emissions. And we’d like to be able to continue to make those more specific. So if you do have something like an item you don’t want to use anymore, ideally down the line, Joro can can help you figure out the best way to give it another life.

Host Raj Daniels 12:54

And how is the app been received so far?

Sanchali Pal 12:57

So far, I’ve been really surprised to see a lot more uptake than I expected. We’ve done very little marketing and advertising. We launched the app publicly in the App Store in 2020. And we found all of our users so far through word of mouth, basically, through some PR, and then through mostly word of mouth. And we’re seeing a lot of interest from our existing users in sharing the app. 

But I think what’s been challenging is that talking about climate can be really hard. And a lot of our users talk about not wanting to seem preachy with their communities. And so what we’re trying to figure out is, how can we best empower people to talk about climate in a way that’s accessible and understanding and meets people where they are, and get used to Joro as a tool to help them take action with others? So you can connect with other people on the app, you can follow friends and see your collective impact add up. And that’s an area that we’ve seen a lot of interest in, is being able to connect with others and multiply your impact.

Host Raj Daniels 13:51

From a demographic standpoint, what does your user base look like?

Sanchali Pal 13:56

We have a variety of users; right now the app is only available in the US. But we’re hoping to expand to other markets in 2022. We do see a pretty strong correlation between Joro user base and where people express concern or anxiety about climate change. So if we’ve mapped our user base on to the research of where people in the United States care about climate change, and it maps pretty well. So we see a lot of major cities across the East and West coast, and also in the Midwest and in the south. So major urban centers, especially with younger populations. We see a lot of users between the ages of 25 and 45, in particular. 

And generally our users tend to be probably middle income, but slightly higher than middle income in the United States. And I think that’s a really important point because carbon footprints are correlated with income. There’s a lot of research on this that shows higher income people tend to have higher carbon lifestyles. And I think that’s a key part of the impact that we’re trying to have, to show that if you have have the means to be making choices about how you consume, then you also have a higher potential for impact in reducing your emissions. 

There was actually recently a study that came out of Oxfam, that said that the wealthiest 10% of the world has been responsible for over 50% of the growth in carbon emissions over the last decade. And if you look at the wealthiest 10% of the world, that includes people in the United States who earn over $60,000, and that maps pretty well to our demographic; our demographic tends to earn more than that.

Host Raj Daniels 15:31

Does the app give purchase options or suggestions?

Sanchali Pal 15:35

We don’t yet.

Host Raj Daniels 15:36

It’s in the roadmap.

Sanchali Pal 15:38

Yeah, we’d like to. The work we’re doing to be able to have estimates on the vendor level or on the merchant level of the carbon emissions of particular purchase is also a step in the direction of being able to make recommendations. So if we see that you’re often purchasing from a particular retailer that tends to have a higher carbon footprint, and we see a pretty substitutable retailer with a lower carbon footprint, we’d like to be able to suggest that to our users.

Host Raj Daniels 16:03

And does that go down to the product level?

Sanchali Pal 16:04

It doesn’t, no. We try to stay away from the product level and estimation for a couple of reasons. One is that we want to be able to provide enough guidance to users to make consequential choices without burdening them with manual input. And so that would require users telling us exactly which products they purchased. And we’d rather say like if you’re going to purchase electronics, you could purchase them from this place or this plase. But we’re not going to tell you which electronics to buy, because that’s your choice. And the second reason is because there are just so many products in the world. And there’s very little data on the carbon emissions of every particular product. So for now we’re staying at the at the vendor level or the category level.

Host Raj Daniels 16:45

Tell me about the name Joro.

Sanchali Pal 16:47

Joro means “protector of the earth” in Old Norse. She’s a character from Norse mythology, similar to Gaia, and actually was the mother of Thor in Norse mythology, which a lot more people are familiar with. But we chose the name Joro because we wanted everyone to be a human protector of the earth.

Host Raj Daniels 17:06

I like that. Is your logo designed after?

Sanchali Pal 17:10

It’s not, no. The logo is just our name. But I do think that some branding work is in our future as we grow.

Host Raj Daniels 17:21

Very nice. So the crux of our conversation is the why behind what you do. We started the conversation speaking about your work in Ethiopia. And then I read, also in my research, you’ve done other international travel. India comes to mind. What’s the why? It looks like you had your options wide open; why did you choose to do Joro.

Sanchali Pal 17:39

For me, it was really the culmination of a long, frustrating personal journey of wanting to live more sustainably and finding it incredibly difficult to figure out what to do. I think many more people feel like me than ever before, this anxiety about the climate crisis, a frustration with how slow things are moving, and a desire to do anything that I can do that will move that faster. So I was really feeling that. And as I started looking into the data I had — I had to do a lot of my own research, but I found that there were choices I was making in my own life that would make a difference if I did them over the course of my lifetime or at scale, but they weren’t necessarily the ones I had initially thought. 

So going from where I was before, eating meat basically every day, to just eating it one meal a week, I was able to have a carbon impact of taking half a car off the road every year. Making choices about using less heating and cooling in my home rather than focusing on the lighting I was using allowed me to save a lot more energy, and then researching and understanding that good carbon offsets are quite difficult to find. And you really need to focus on carbon removals and craft a portfolio of offsets that balance short term and long term carbon removals is the way that you can have an impact if you decide to do offsets. All of that is very difficult for consumers to find access to. And so what I wanted to do is just make that easier, because the more people that are doing this, the more power we have. And that’s really at the heart of sort of our theory of change at Joro is that the climate crisis is a collective action crisis. It’s a systemic problem. 

But systems are made up of people. And it’s not useful for us to feel disempowered, or like we can’t do anything, and leave everything up to people in boardrooms or people in the Senate or Congress, when we do have an influence over the majority of emissions through the way that we spend and use our money. And so I really wanted to help people unlock that path to power and that path to accelerating climate action. Of course, we need businesses to take action. Of course, we need sweeping policy reform, but we also can’t wait for that. And I wanted to find a way to give people access to their true influence and sort of move climate solutions faster than they’re moving today.

Host Raj Daniels 19:51

I understand your need or your desire to help people with climate solutions. But, as we both know, starting a startup is very, very hard. What else compelled you to decide to go down this road?

Sanchali Pal 20:05

So when I was deciding to start Joro, I had an offer to go back to Tesla, where I had worked over the summer of my MBA. And that was it. One hypothesis of how I could have an impact was working for a company that was trying to change one major fossil fuel driven sector of the economy. But I kind of felt like Tesla was going to succeed without me, you know, it didn’t need another MBA intern in order to have a transformative potential in the world. The area that was really neglected is giving people the tools to take climate action. There’s so many startups that are building new solar cells, or new batteries, or new electric vehicles. But there’s unsexy work of helping people just manage their finances in a way that’s more carbon efficient. And I felt like this was going to be a sector, this was going to be a new category of product. And I wanted to be the one who built it. So that was really why I chose to start Joro instead of taking a different path to climate action.

Host Raj Daniels 21:08

Earlier, did you say that 60% of, how did you phrase it?

Sanchali Pal 21:12

Over 65% of global emissions are influenced by household consumption.

Host Raj Daniels 21:17

Why do you think that that isn’t more publicized?

Sanchali Pal 21:20

There are a lot of different ways of cutting the data, depending on which path you want people to take. And it is true that also something like 70% of emissions are created by the top 100 companies. But that doesn’t mean that people don’t have any influence because people buy from those companies. And so that’s the research that I was really interested in, is that household consumption number. And it’s very counterproductive for companies who are trying to sell you things for you to understand that the things that you buy have a carbon impact. 

I was shocked to find out that driving a car for 30 minutes has about the same carbon impact as buying a T-shirt and buying a T-shirt, you kind of do without thinking about the fact that it’s connected to fossil fuels. When you fill your gas tank in your car, you know it’s connected to fossil fuels. But our spending is an area that we really don’t understand the carbon impact of, those supply chains. And companies aren’t very transparent about it. So I wanted to democratize access to that information.

Host Raj Daniels 22:21

And it’s funny, you mentioned buying a T-shirt, because I’ve had many conversations recently around fast fashion, the issues around the fashion industry, and the whole idea of disposable clothing and people not realizing that it’s ending up in landfills in other countries.

Sanchali Pal 22:35

Yeah, absolutely. I think there’s a lot of there, there’s some awareness coming through new brands who will benefit from people buying less or buying better. But it’s really hard for companies who are trying to sell you stuff to tell you that your consumption is having this impact on the planet.

Host Raj Daniels 22:53

It goes back to our conversation about extended producer responsibility.

Sanchali Pal 22:56

Yes, absolutely.

Host Raj Daniels 22:58

So you’ve been on this journey for a few years now, what’s the most valuable lesson you’ve learned about yourself?

Sanchali Pal 23:05

I think one of the most valuable lessons I’ve learned about myself, and what allows me to stay motivated, is that I need to keep grounding in the user experience and the user need. It’s extremely, there’s so much happening in this space, especially now that climate has become front and center in the headlines. 

And there are so many new trends it intersects with, like AI and crypto. And I think the sector is moving very quickly. But what I’ve learned is, it’s very important to stay focused on trying to do one thing at a time really well. And the best way to do that is to continue to talk to users on a weekly basis. And so I try to do that now. I answer all of our, our emails to our info at address. I do user interviews weekly with people in the community, or with people who are interested in the product. And I find that to be very helpful in sort of trying to stay laser focused on what’s most important.

Host Raj Daniels 24:02

Getting focus as a CEO of a company can be difficult.

Sanchali Pal 24:05

It’s very difficult. There are always a million things that you want to be better about the product, or that you wish you could do. So I think that’s been both the hardest part and the thing that’s been most important to remind myself of.

Host Raj Daniels 24:19

Now, as we’re coming towards the end of the year, do you have any kind of report that you’ll be publishing regarding the amount of carbon saved or changed over the year?

Sanchali Pal 24:28

We do. We’re going to be releasing a carbon year in review report, which will be kind of similar to the Spotify year in review, but for Joro users. And we’ve got some really interesting data for the first time with a significant critical mass of Joro users showing where emissions reduction comes from, what kinds of people are saving the most carbon, and how they’re doing it? And then sort of surprising facts about which types of consumption are the hidden drivers of carbon that people don’t know about. 

So for instance, crypto is one that’s become an interesting and important driver of our users footprints. It might be a sneaky one that you’re not as aware of. So we’re trying to highlight the opportunities for impact and the great data we have on where that comes from, as well as some of the blind spots people might have when it comes to carbon.

Host Raj Daniels 25:15

And I guess going back to my earlier question regarding suggestions, will you be providing any perhaps New Year’s suggestions resolutions that people can do to change their behavior? Let’s take crypto again, for example.

Sanchali Pal 25:27

Yes, we will. So looking at this data in aggregate, we were able to find a few key actions that are really impactful when people take them. And especially, we found that people have been most successful when they take actions that only need to be done once. 

So for instance, switching your bank account to a cleaner bank so that your money isn’t being used to fund fossil fuels can be a really impactful one-time action that you could take. Or if you have cryptocurrencies that you hold as part of your investments, looking carefully into which cryptocurrencies you’re using because Bitcoin, for instance, might be 10 or even 100 times more energy-intensive than some other cryptocurrencies. So, we’re going to try to highlight those really important key actions, and especially the ones that you can take action on first thing in the new year and feel really good about.

Host Raj Daniels 26:12

Does the app offer anything from a competitive standpoint, where you mentioned community earlier, where people can show people in their community the actions they’ve taken?

Sanchali Pal 26:22

We do. We have the ability to connect with other people. So everyone who joins the app gets a little profile. And if you choose to be a public user, you can connect with others, you could follow me on Joro and see my carbon savings every week. And then there’s also a leaderboard sort of weekly leaderboard, where you can see how you stack up against other people. There’s a bit of friendly competition. And that’s an area where also we see people who follow friends have far more impact than people who don’t. So it’s definitely an area that we’ll be expanding features in in the new year.

Host Raj Daniels 26:51

That’s excellent. I read a story many years ago about a solar program in California, where they found that just putting a sign outside a house so the neighbors could see it would make other people change their behavior compared to any other kind of advertising they did.

Sanchali Pal 27:04

That’s really interesting, yeah. I think there’s so many interesting dynamics to tap into when it comes to social signaling for climate. And it’s something that I’d love for Joro to be a place where people can really brag and signal about all of the amazing action they’re taking on climate, because that’s ultimately what it comes down to, is making this a social norm and part of culture.

Host Raj Daniels 27:27

I just finished reading a book recently, it’s called Why We Want What We Want. And the book is based on mimetic desire and what influences our desires. I think you might enjoy the read.

Sanchali Pal 27:39

That sounds really interesting, I will definitely look that up. Because there’s this sort of, we need to sort of craft the story of climate future that’s more abundant than the one we have. And it’s not about sacrificing necessarily, or consuming far less, although that’s part of it. It’s about how consuming less or consuming differently can make our lives more abundant than they are now. And that’s a dynamic that I’d love to see the climate sector be able to explain and tell better.

Host Raj Daniels 28:08

And to your point about collective action, if we all take small steps together collectively, we can significantly reduce that 65% number.

Sanchali Pal 28:16

Absolutely, we’re seeing — a little preview of our carbon year in review is that we’re seeing draw users lower their emissions by about 18% when they’re on the app. And that’s really significant. If you’re thinking about how we we already influenced the majority of emissions, and we’re trying to get to net zero by 2050. Any little bit that we can do ourselves really, really helps.

Host Raj Daniels 28:37

And like you said, we don’t have to wait for the politicians,

Sanchali Pal 28:39

Exactly, we can actually push them by taking action first.

Host Raj Daniels 28:44

So let’s move into the future. It’s 2030. Pick your favorite publication, Fast Company, Newsweek, Fortune. If they would write a headline about Joro, what would you like it to read?

Sanchali Pal 28:55

In 2030. I would love a headline to say that the Joro community has helped us achieve our climate targets of reducing global emissions by 50% by 2030. And that they’re showing that we can actually achieve net zero already. Especially because, right now in the app, anyone can actually go net zero as a person today. You don’t have to wait for 2050. We released a membership a few months ago that allows anyone to automatically remove the carbon associated with their carbon footprint, by subscribing to support carbon offsets in the app. So we do the emissions estimates for you, and then we curate the carbon renewables you are going to support so that you can go net zero as a person. And so by 2030, I would hope that that’s the norm and that many people are already going net zero and helping us achieve the halving of emissions that we need to by 2030 and then putting us already on a path to net zero by 2050.

Host Raj Daniels 29:50

That’s a beautiful vision and I look forward to it coming to fruition.

Sanchali Pal 29:53

Thank you.

Host Raj Daniels 29:54

So last question, and this could be professional or personal, but if you could share some advice or words of wisdom, recommendations with the audience, what would it be?

Sanchali Pal 30:03

My advice for anyone listening is to find your path and to climate action that’s unique to you. I think for some people, they’re really motivated by supporting animals and making sure that animals are safe and have habitats and protecting endangered species. Other people might be really motivated by food, they might love to cook and be curious about what it looks like to have a more plant forward diet or to incorporate that in their families or their workplaces. 

Some people might be really curious about the potential of renewable energy and sort of are technical or are engineers and want to be supporting renewable energy uptake in their community by supporting legislation or even installing renewable energy in their own homes. So I think that’s my advice, is find what motivates you, find what your passion is, and use that as your in to taking climate action. You don’t have to do everything, no one can police every single choice, but find an area you’re passionate about and start making impactful choices in that area. And then together, we’ll be moving a lot faster.

Host Raj Daniels 31:04

I appreciate that. And I think it’s very interesting that you shared that. Recently, as a company, we created a small webinar program, and it’s called Renewable Energy for Non-engineers. And the reason we created that program is to show, specifically in this case, high school students, how they can engage in sustainability of renewable energy, with the talents they have, not necessarily having to become an engineer to join the movement.

Sanchali Pal 31:29

That’s wonderful. Yeah. Because I think that’s a big challenge with climate is people feel intimidated, like, “Oh, I don’t know enough about that. I don’t really understand the science. I don’t really understand what needs to be done.” But the truth is that the most difficult part about climate is also the most empowering, is that it’s part of everything. The way we use energy, it’s embedded in everything we do. So if you eat, if you buy clothes, if you power your home, you have a path to taking meaningful climate action.

Host Raj Daniels 31:58

Again, I jotted down a quote that I read a few years, and it says, “Energy isn’t its own sector. Climate isn’t its own sector. It’s everything.”

Sanchali Pal 32:06

It is, it really is.

Host Raj Daniels 32:07

Well, Sanchali, I really appreciate your time today. I look forward to the continued success of Joro and catching up with you again soon.

Sanchali Pal 32:14

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be here.

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